I'm a complete and utter noob regarding all things to do with arcade hardware. Arcade's went extinct in this part of the world nearly two decades ago, save for that one place that uses a giant humanoid rat to promote their over priced pizza. Needless to say I don't go there.
My interest has been piqued into getting a Naomi upon discovering, about a week ago, that Melty Blood exists for it. Was a title many, myself included, had desperately hoped would get a DC port, but that never happened.
Spent a good portion of this day reading information on the site, very helpful stuff, and on this message board. I've gotten a good bit of the requirements straightened out in my head but I still have a few questions.
1. What sort of controller will I need to acquire?
The Maple Bus I understand it's what the DC has. JAMMA Is a complete mystery to me. And then there's this "Capcom I/O" add-on thing that just adds to the existing confusion.
2. Regarding the power supplies...
From what I've read here the original power supply for the Naomi is a mere 75W with the highest Amps on a single rail only 8A. Y'all have a nice guide on these boards on how to convert a PC power supply into a Naomi compatible power supply. So Please tell me if I'm over thinking this now, but being that I work in a PC repair and sales store and I'm quite familiar with current power supplies on the market. I'm rather concerned that a 350W power supply with no less than 18A 12V and typically 30A+ on both the 5V and 3.3V rails could be detremental to the well being of the Naomi hardware.
3. Is a coin count circuit needed to actually play games?
I'd really hate to buy all the expensive stuff and then find out that I can't do anything but watch the system run demoes because it hasn't got a way to do free play. And hey, I've still got a few dozen tokens from the arcade that went out of business about seventeen years ago, so I'm covered if I do need one. :smt005
4. When slaving multiple Naomi's for the enhancement of a single game does it matter if the slaved units have a BIOS chip? And does each slave unit also need its own copy of the game?
There's a disgustingly dirty looking Naomi on Ebay right now being offered from a seller in Mexico that's described as having a bad BIOS. Seems like it would be reasonable at the price should it be able to be used in such manner... once it's been heavily sanitized at least. :/
5. What is the USB port on the Naomi used for?
Questions from an arcade noob.
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OldFoo
That's alot of questions... :smt104 But like any other problem, we take it one piece at a time.
1) Even though the Naomi system has a Maple bus, most games don't even attempt to use it. Melty Blood not being the exception. JAMMA is just a standardized control interface, nothing too complicated. The Capcom I/O is also a JAMMA interface made to act as power supply, controller and sound amp. However, it cannot be use in GD systems as it doesn't provide enough power for the entire system.
2) Regarding power supplies, you can use a PSU that is more than 75 watts, but the system will not need more than that. If you can't find or don't want to purchase the Naomi PSU, a supply from a PC will do just fine as long as you have the right connections.
3) DIfferent games react differently in the absence of a coin counter. Some games don't seem to care; some only run in attract mode (demo); some don't even boot and give an error code. The best way to deal with this is to have the counter present. Try the game without the counter and see what happens. If you need the counter, you can get it afterward. It doesn't cost much and is only 2 wires.
3) The 'slaving' you referred to is known as system linking. This is supported by multiplayer games for network play (think Daytona USA) and needs additional hardware to work. This method is not used for the enhancement of any game as you would with multi-processor PC's. Sega did say that the Naomi system is capable of this, but it was never used. The closest thing to this would be multi-screen games where each screen had it's own Naomi and 'parallel task' the game: right, middle, left view. (rare)
4) The 'USB-looking' port on the Naomi is used for the control interface data input. The JAMMA board sends it's signals to this port. Although they used a USB connector, it is not the usual USB protocol, but a specialized SEGA protocol. In short, standard USB devices cannot be used.
I hope this answers your questions adequately.
1) Even though the Naomi system has a Maple bus, most games don't even attempt to use it. Melty Blood not being the exception. JAMMA is just a standardized control interface, nothing too complicated. The Capcom I/O is also a JAMMA interface made to act as power supply, controller and sound amp. However, it cannot be use in GD systems as it doesn't provide enough power for the entire system.
2) Regarding power supplies, you can use a PSU that is more than 75 watts, but the system will not need more than that. If you can't find or don't want to purchase the Naomi PSU, a supply from a PC will do just fine as long as you have the right connections.
3) DIfferent games react differently in the absence of a coin counter. Some games don't seem to care; some only run in attract mode (demo); some don't even boot and give an error code. The best way to deal with this is to have the counter present. Try the game without the counter and see what happens. If you need the counter, you can get it afterward. It doesn't cost much and is only 2 wires.
3) The 'slaving' you referred to is known as system linking. This is supported by multiplayer games for network play (think Daytona USA) and needs additional hardware to work. This method is not used for the enhancement of any game as you would with multi-processor PC's. Sega did say that the Naomi system is capable of this, but it was never used. The closest thing to this would be multi-screen games where each screen had it's own Naomi and 'parallel task' the game: right, middle, left view. (rare)
4) The 'USB-looking' port on the Naomi is used for the control interface data input. The JAMMA board sends it's signals to this port. Although they used a USB connector, it is not the usual USB protocol, but a specialized SEGA protocol. In short, standard USB devices cannot be used.
I hope this answers your questions adequately.
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OldFoo
Thank you for the response. Now have a couple more questions.
6. Do the coin counters have standardized interfaces?
Know you said it's only two wires, but curious if the conntector is universal with the correlating connector on the Naomi.
7. Does Jamma use a standardized connection? And if yes, does the Naomi have such an interface connector?
6. Do the coin counters have standardized interfaces?
Know you said it's only two wires, but curious if the conntector is universal with the correlating connector on the Naomi.
7. Does Jamma use a standardized connection? And if yes, does the Naomi have such an interface connector?
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OldFoo
I would not worry too much about the coin counters
There are only about 5 games that need them
Here is the known list
Chocko Maker
Super Shanghai 2005
Tetris Kiwamemichi
Lupin the shooting
Shikigami no Shiro 2 (needs both coin counters spoofed)
http://www.sega-naomi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3982
Also, you can spoof the coin counters with a 100 ohm resistor
Details on how to spoof coin counter in this thread
http://www.sega-naomi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1473
There are only about 5 games that need them
Here is the known list
Chocko Maker
Super Shanghai 2005
Tetris Kiwamemichi
Lupin the shooting
Shikigami no Shiro 2 (needs both coin counters spoofed)
http://www.sega-naomi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3982
Also, you can spoof the coin counters with a 100 ohm resistor
Details on how to spoof coin counter in this thread
http://www.sega-naomi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1473
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OldFoo
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OldFoo
As I previously mentioned, it is standardized. The connection is standardized as well as the wiring. As such, the counter is connected in the same place every time. The Naomi itself does not have JAMMA connectors on it. A separate board is used to interface with JAMMA controls and is translated and formatted for use with the Naomi system. It is this board that is connected to the USB style connection. Take a look here--->Naomi hardware<---. This page should help you visualize and understand the system hardware.game_player_s wrote:Thank you for the response. Now have a couple more questions.
6. Do the coin counters have standardized interfaces?
Know you said it's only two wires, but curious if the conntector is universal with the correlating connector on the Naomi.
7. Does Jamma use a standardized connection? And if yes, does the Naomi have such an interface connector?
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OldFoo
joshua3dg wrote:Based on the types of questions that he is asking, spoofing may well be a bit over his current abilities. Which is why I didn't mention it. It's important that when answering newcomer questions that the answers not be confusing or overly difficult. :smt018
Hi Josh,
Good point. My bad. I was only trying to mention that if the coin conters are not there that there is a very limited set of games that will be affected and which ones they are. I guess I have a small sense of accomplishment in overcoming the coin counter issues, how, and which games are affected.
What I was really trying to commincate was not to worry about the coin counters at all unless you want to play one of the games listed to simplify things. Just getting a NAOMI w. GD up and running with the minimum set of components is a little overwhelming at 1st
game_player_s. Listen to Josh. He is the MAN!!!, and one of the best tech guys here
:smt023Bob Presutti
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OldFoo
So, for a quick summary of how a basic Naomi system is connected:
Just wanted to set out the basics in this short list..
- Arcade controls (joysticks and buttons as found on an arcade cabinet) are used to play games on the Naomi.
- The joysticks and buttons are either wired for JAMMA (a wiring standard) or for JVS (another standard). In both cases, the joysticks and buttons are connected to an I/O Interface.
- This I/O Interface is connected to the Naomi with a USB-type cable.
- In the case of JAMMA, almost all cabinet electronics culminate in a single connector. In the case of JVS, almost everything is wired directly to an I/O interface. That is why, in the case of a cabinet wired for JAMMA, you will need an additional I/O interface to plug the JAMMA connector in. A cabinet wired for JVS has a built-in I/O interface as part of the cabinet wiring.
Just wanted to set out the basics in this short list..
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OldFoo
O_O
O_o
o_0
o_o
Yikes! Let me make sure I just read what I think I just read. It's possible to wire a DC controller directly into the Maple Bus connectors (which doesn't amount to a hill of beans sadly), but in an actual arcade cabinet the Naomi is incable of a direct interface with a controller??? Rather it requires a an I/O board to act as a interpreter between the controller(s) and the motherboard? Was this done as a means of hardware redundancy?
Well regardless this certainly does hamper things on two fronts. No Jamma controllers listed on Ebay, and those I/O interfaces are listed with starting prices that apparently rival the GD-ROM unit.
Here's a another question. Taking a closer look at the Naomi setup pics on the site, just how big (physically) is this equipment? It just occured to me the size relevance of the GD-ROM next to the Naomi and I'm fairing a guess that the GD-ROM unit must be close in size to a Dreamcast. And is the power supply standard ATX form factor as well? Guess I should scratch the idea of using an old IBM mini-ATX case to house this stuff.
O_o
o_0
o_o
Yikes! Let me make sure I just read what I think I just read. It's possible to wire a DC controller directly into the Maple Bus connectors (which doesn't amount to a hill of beans sadly), but in an actual arcade cabinet the Naomi is incable of a direct interface with a controller??? Rather it requires a an I/O board to act as a interpreter between the controller(s) and the motherboard? Was this done as a means of hardware redundancy?
Well regardless this certainly does hamper things on two fronts. No Jamma controllers listed on Ebay, and those I/O interfaces are listed with starting prices that apparently rival the GD-ROM unit.
Here's a another question. Taking a closer look at the Naomi setup pics on the site, just how big (physically) is this equipment? It just occured to me the size relevance of the GD-ROM next to the Naomi and I'm fairing a guess that the GD-ROM unit must be close in size to a Dreamcast. And is the power supply standard ATX form factor as well? Guess I should scratch the idea of using an old IBM mini-ATX case to house this stuff.
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OldFoo
The Naomi system is a little bigger than a standard ream of paper. The GD drive is only slightly bigger than the disk itself which is the same size as a CD-Rom disk in terms of length and width. It does not approach the size of a Dreamcast.
Sega's purpose in using an I/O board is to have the ability to make any kind of interface that is necessary. Standard games can use standard I/O's while more specialized games such as gun shooting games, sword games, etc can have a board used for that specific purpose. One size doesn't necessarily fit all.
P.S.
Please note that these aren't actual dimensions and is meant to be a point of reference.
Sega's purpose in using an I/O board is to have the ability to make any kind of interface that is necessary. Standard games can use standard I/O's while more specialized games such as gun shooting games, sword games, etc can have a board used for that specific purpose. One size doesn't necessarily fit all.
P.S.
Please note that these aren't actual dimensions and is meant to be a point of reference.